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Misc.kids Frequently Asked Questions
Traveling with Kids See reader questions & answers on this topic! - Help others by sharing your knowledge ======================================================================= Collection maintained by: Diane Lin, dlin@weber.ucsd.edu Last updated: 11/7/96 ======================================================================= Copyright 1995, Diane Lin. Use and copying of this information are permitted as long as (1) no fees or compensation are charged for use, copies or access to this information, and (2) this copyright notice is included intact. ====================================================================== To contribute to this collection, please send e-mail to the address given above, and ask me to add your comments to the FAQ file on Traveling with Kids. Please try to be as concise as possible, as these FAQ files tend to be quite long as it is. And, unless otherwise requested, your name and e-mail address will remain in the file, so that interested readers may follow-up directly for more information/discussion. For a list of other FAQ topics, tune in to misc.kids or misc.kids.info This file is organized into four major topics: Miscellaneous Travel Tips Overseas Travel with Toddler Airplane Travel Car Travel Train Travel ======================================================================= *** MISCELLANEOUS TRAVEL TIPS *** Hi! I belong to a mailing list made up of about 100 parents of children born in 1994 and early 1995. Recently I put together a summary of ideas for surviving long car trips using some info from the misc.kids.faq, but most from our group. Our group is called OURKIDS. If you feel that any of this information is useful, please feel free to include it in the misc.kids FAQ. SUMMARY OF IDEAS FOR LONG CAR TRIPS 1. Travel late at night or very early in the morning while they are still SLEEPING. Pray that your child will sleep. 2. Bring lots of SNACKS to keep them eating - this usually keeps them quiet. Be careful that your child does not choke as it is pretty difficult to stop the car and get them out of the car seat quickly. Try and bring along non-messy snacks. (ie. juice boxes, gold fish, rice cakes, cheerios, cheese, cut up fruit, teddy grahams, pretzel sticks, sliced grapes, raisins) Spread a large towel over the entire back seat to catch thrown cookies/crackers/bottles. 3. Bring TOYS that your child has not seen before - something that will catch their eye. One person had great success with a mini photo album of various family shots. Another person suggested wrapping them up in pretty paper and letting the child tear the paper off. Avoid toys that make noise that would irritate the poor driver ie. nothing with batteries or flashing lights. Another toy suggestion is a role of clear tape. Apparently they love to tape themselves the seat, you etc. Also, a ball made of sticky tape. A Magna Doodle. A paper cup from McDonalds with a plastic lid and straw - apparently hours of entertainment 8-) 4. Stop for a BREAK every 1.5 to 2 hours and let your child burn some steam running around. Stop at rest areas where there will be room for your child to run around - restaurants may not allow for this (unless it's a McDonald's with a play area) One ourkidder suggested avoiding stops because of the difficulty of getting ourkid back in the car seat! Blow some bubbles at the rest stop. 5. If the trip is very long, (ie. more than 6 hours) stop and stay the night somewhere - maybe at another ourkids' place :) or in a hotel with a swimming pool and playground that your child would enjoy. 6. If possible, sit beside your child in the vehicle. 7. Take extra bags for dirty diapers just in case there is no place to put them. Plan on how to change the diaper in the car if there is no place convenient to do so. Bring some water just in case the diaper is *really* messy and you need some extra water to clean it up. Use a nose clip. Change the diaper often because sitting on a wet diaper for long periods increases the chance of a diaper rash. Use a good barrier cream. 8. Point out passing vehicles (ie. big trucks) or bridges to keep them focussed on something. 9. Sing songs - finger play songs are a big hit with some (ie. Itsy Bitsy Spider) 10. Books! Small, easy to handle. New ones that they haven't seen before. 11. Stuffed animals and puppets. One ourkidder has success playing with hand puppets from the front seat. 12. Use car shades to keep the sun out of their eyes. Sun glasses work too if your child will wear them. Take sun screen and a hat. 13. Pack tylenol for yourself :) 14. If your car has a cassette or CD player, bring along familiar music. 15. Bring your good humour and lots of energy. Try smile. 16. Don't go - stay home instead. :) 17. Avoid travelling during rush hour so you don't get "stuck" in traffic. 18. Give them a little Benedryl to help them relax! 19. For an older ourkid, take a potty just in case. 20. Buy a van. email: kmakortoff@ccinet.ab.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ellen M. Stier (estier@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU) "California With Kids" is the best book investment we've made since we became a "family". It gives lots of general travel tips in the beginning (what to pack, what to eat, schedules, hotels/motels, camping, flying, public transportation, etc.), then goes into detailed descriptions on all kinds of places in California -- small town rural to big city centers. We visited San Diego for the first time last month, and this book was our guide. Everything is written from the perspective of what your child(ren) will think about it. Tells what restaurants are family-friendly. Invites reader input (if you visit places in this book and find that what is written is no longer true, write and tell us). When I first saw the book I read the section on our part of the state (San Luis Obispo and the central coast). I found out things I never knew about things right "next door". It was really up-to-date (had the children's museum in it that opened less than a year ago). I figured if it did that good of a job on our little area, it would do a good job on others, too. We haven't been disappointed! There's so much I like about it, it's hard to remember it all, but one thing we found particularly useful was that it includes phone numbers, price ranges, and hours things are open. It's published by Frommes. I guess they do a lot of travel guides. It's written by two moms. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Susan Gauch (sgauch@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu) For those who are not opposed to the occasional use of drugs with children, here are suggestions passed on to us (from doctors, by the way). 1) For older children (>1?) you can use pediatric (i.e. liquid) dramamine to calm them. This is available over-the-counter in some drug stores in the States. It is WIDELY available in Canada under the brand name Gravol. I found that it is more effective on my daughter now she is 2.5, and that it will make her somewhat more relaxed if she is wide awake, and make her sleep if she is already tired (i.e. an hour past her regular nap/bedtime). It had no visible effect when she was 1.5. 2) For young children, our pediatrician said that benelyn cough syrup should make her drowsy. Warning: it has the opposite effect on some children, so try it at home one day before you go on a trip. This also had no effect on our daughter. 3) When things get really serious, you can get, by prescription, chloral hydrate (knock-out drops). This tastes bitter, so use it in orange juice. This definitely works, but seems drastic. We used this at one a.m. on a 1.5 year old that usually went to bed at 9. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Judy Leedom Tyrer (judy@locus.com) General travel tips: If the trip is a long one, purchase several new toys (we use one an hour for airplanes, but that would be prohibitive for long car drives) to take with you. New toys are special and played with most when first purchased. Be sure and take lots of snacks and drinks and spare changes of clothes which are handy. Anything you might need, you probably will need. Long trips are easier at night so the children can sleep (it they will) part of the time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Diane C. Lin (dlin@weber.ucsd.edu) Tip for Hotel Stay with Infant: On a recent trip to the Bay Area with our 10-month old son, we booked a hotel room with a crib. Luckily, our room also had two king-sized beds, because Dylan would not sleep in this unfamiliar crib! We ended up with Dylan sleeping with me in one bed while my husband slept in the other bed. (He can't ever sleep with Dylan in the same bed--Dylan makes him too nervous.) It worked out wonderfully well for us, as Dylan and I like to cuddle and he gets the reassurance of having mommy right next to him in a strange place, and Gary got a good night's sleep! We were also lucky enough to have a small refrigerator in our room, so we always had some apple juice on hand, and some cheese for snacks. ========================================================================= *** OVERSEAS TRAVEL WITH TODDLER *** [Note: These were sent in response to a request for tips on overseas travel with an 18 month old toddler. The original requestor's summary of her trip is at the end] From: guthrie@nb.rockwell.com (Karen Guthrie) Try some liquid dramamine before you go to see if it makes her sleepy. Then after the new has worn off the trip give her a dose and put her to sleep for a while. If she is like mine, without it she will not sleep hardly at all and you will end up with the most tired child you have ever seen. Here liquid dramamine is an over the counter drug. We did this with Chelsea when she was 3.5yo because we had VERY bad memories of a trip from LA California to the Bahamas when she was 17 months. It worked like a charm. She was still tired but nothing like she would have been. -------------------------------- I flew from Zurich to LA and back with Daniel who was 14 months at the time, and we're going to LA again in a couple of weeks. The flights weren't bad--one was during the day, one overnight. Just have enough toys, a few familiar, a few new, snacks, juice, etc to last the time. We also spent some time walking the aisles. Its good that there are two of you. We had much more problems with jet lag. Toddlers don't understand jet lag and the need to overcome it, when they are wide awake, there is really nothing to do but play with them--even if it is 3 in the morning. Daniel adjusted at the rate of about an hour a day. A friend of mine who regularly flies back and forth between LA and Paris with her small children gives them sleeping pills the first couple of nights and claims it works well. I'm probably going to try this this time as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: troy@hogpa.att.com Congratulations! I hope it is fun. My husband and I took our 17 month old son to Paris for 12 days this past April. Unfortunately, I can tell you that the flight was not a whole lot of fun. Going over we took a red eye, going back we flew during the day. The red eye worked out well, but the return during the day was extremely difficult. However, it is survivable. We did some things right and some wrong. First, the things we did right. We *insisted* on bulkhead seats at the window and aisle in Paris (Orly). Believe it or not, this was a huge effort. First they couldn't believe we wanted to be ticketed for a window and aisle. Then they tried to insist that we had to purchase a ticket for my son. Fortunately, we speak French well enough to get the point across and were adament and offered to speak to a supervisor to settle the issue. Then when we left, we realized that they had not ticketed us in the same row as going over (it was the same type of plane and we had checked where the bulkhead was) and had to go back to get bulkhead seats. Most other parents were not so fortunate and most of the bulkhead row was filled with elderly folks who could have cared less while we had arrived three hours early to get the seats we wanted. We brought a number of toys to play with, all wrapped individually, none over $3. This really helped. I planned for a toy an hour and then over- bought so that we could be sure to have enough. This was good since some things were duds and others were great. Little cans of playdough were a messy, but favorite choice. I just tried not to think about the mess we left (I hate to do this and have been known to pick up the floor in restaurants after my son). (I wrapped them in left over Hannukah paper and he didn't know the difference at all.) This was a net idea that helped. We brought Cheerios in individual bowls and juice boxes and bananas. These are among my son's favorite foods, but were a mixed blessing. Eating in Paris with a young child is difficult. Many restaurants don't allow kids this young and restaurants don't usually open until 7 or 7:30 pm so my son had had more than he liked of Cheerios, apple juice, bananas and any other variation we could come up with in a small local market. But since the airplane food wasn't really acceptable for him, we made do just fine. Needless to say our carry-on backpack was quite full. I let him walk up and down the aisles, not stopping unless other adults stopped him. Few folks seemed to mind, and one of the stewards was delighted with him and stopped to play whenever he had a chance. One older gentleman did approach me, look me in the eye, announced just this, "He's too young," and stomped off. I was already beyond my limits, so I just ignored it and turned back to the steward who was there at the time and shrugged. I also let my son do things I wouldn't otherwise do, like play with the small cans of juice left out for passengers by the bathrooms during the flight. We let him sleep on the floor in front of us on one of the airplane blankets with a blanket over him. He was comfortable and we just had to find room for our feet. Now some of the mistakes. We hoped my son would sleep a lot on the return flight and so got him up very early (5:30 am for a 10 am flight), fed him, let him run all over the airport and otherwise amuse himself and use as much energy as possible. Big mistake. He slept the same length as usual, 1 and 1/2 hours right after we boarded, woke up as lunch arrived, and then was as cranky as he ever was through the flight. We resorted to spanking him when our frustration and exhaustion got to us. We have almost never resorted to this in the past (maybe a light tap on the bottom once in a month or two). He just became more difficult and unhappy and then resented us for the treatment. We hoped that the airplane would have more food that he could eat in our lunches. Except for the bread, there was almost nothing for him. We didn't press hard for seat assignments to be given to us here. We got our tickets through a consolidator (for the first time) and didn't really give this a lot of thought. I'd bet that we could have gotten assignments if we had worked hard at it. Anyway, I certainly have rambled on more than long enough! Although it was difficult and I'm sure that I won't remember as much of the sights as I would have if we'd done this trip B.K. (before Kyle), I will never forget his face as he chased as many pigeons, dogs and babies as he saw throughout Paris. And we did some things we wouldn't have done without him. The parks, local as well as large attractions, were delightful! We saw some incredible parks just because whenever we had a minute we tried to hit one for him to get some running around time in. We did a lot of window shopping on the way between things since he walked so slowly. And we just generally did things at a different pace in a different way than we would have done otherwise. I'm not exactly sure that I'd do it again between a year and 18 months, but I wouldn't give up the experience for anything! ---------------------------------------------------- subject: Overseas travel - report We took our 18 m onth old daughter, Taisa, to France (one week in the Alps and another on the coast in Provence) last month. Things went very well. Here are some of the things we did (or lucked into) that went well. Basically, we had a great time, Taisa was healthy and happy the entire two weeks, and even the plane travel went well. We tried to get Taisa to sleep on the plane (11 hrs) but were pretty much unsuccessful, even having given her some childrens dramamine and some phenergen, suggestions from reponders to my request and our pediatrician, respectively. However, Taisa was happy the entire time and made up her sleep upon arrival, so it didn't really matter. We had plenty of new books and lots of paper and markers to draw with. That and lots of interaction with other people passed the time on the plane. It took her about 3 days to adjust to the 9-hr time change. Two nights were tough (she'd wake at 10:30 after sleeping a couple of hours and want to play for a couple of hours). We'd take her to bed with us to try to sleep ourselves (I was working the first week). After two nights of this, she was back to sleeping through the night and regular nap time. The hotels all had decent cribs and we wished we had left the porta-crib at home because she happily slept in the hotel cribs. The French love dogs and they are everywhere - Taisa, the dog-crazed child, had a great time with them. Everyone was very nice to her and gave her chocolate all the time (the baby who had never had even a cookie before! - oh well, when in Rome...) Of course, mama had to confiscate some of that chocolate :-). She loved the baby pools (they're great - only about 6 inches of water so the little ones can run around and, as in T's case, pretend to "shveem") as well as the ocean. Taisa is very social and was disconcerted the first day when people didn't respond to her 'hi!". I told her that she needed to say "bonjour" in France and soon she was off, saying bonjour, bonsoir, merci, au revoir, ca va, beaucoup, and cinq (high-fives). Incredible how they soak up language at this age (she is already bi-lingual in her current vocabulary, as I talk to her only in Ukrainian, perhaps that helped her to pick up the French words easily). Other things we did/had done: * Didn't buy a seat but were lucky enough to get a free one each way on the plane; * Didn't take a car seat and let Taisa be held by one of us the small amount of the time we were in cars (no idea whether we broke any laws but I suspect not since the rental co (Hertz) had no seats available for rent); (we explained upon arrival that we were back home now and she needed to be in a carseat at all times as well as not eating chocolate - I think she wants to defect :-) * Traveled by train in France, and bought a "Carte Kiwi", which is a card that entitles those traveling with children to tremendous discounts on the French trains (all systems); * Got a suite as often as was available. Had the crib in the bedroom so that we could stay up and read and talk in the "salon" after she went to bed. Basically we were very lucky that she stayed healthy and had just finished her last (bicuspid) teething bouts before we left. But I'd like to encourage anyone who's considering such a trip to go for it - we were all much happier for having made the trip together. Marta Kosarchyn maka@nsa.hp.com ========================================================================= *** AIRPLANE TIPS *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: galdes@bobcat.esd.sgi.com (Deb Galdes) I came across an article in the May 1995 edition of BayAreaParent magazine concerning car seats and airplanes. Some of it goes against the common thinking that children who use car seats in automobiles should also use car seats on airplanes. The article is by Susan Kerr. Here are the major points... "Buckling your child up in a car or booster seat on board an airplane may seem the safe thing to do, but it could be more dangerous than just using the seat belt. This was one of several surprising results of simulated airplane impact tests conducted by the Federal Aviation Administration utilizing six categories of child restraint devices and four types of child-sized crash test dummies. What the experiments revealed is that children age 3 and up can use regular seat belts and be offered the same level of protection provided to adults. Infants weighing less than 20 pounds should use backward-facing car seats. Unfortunately, no clearcut advice exists for those in-between children -- babies and toddlers who typically use forward-facing car seats or sit on an adult's lap on the plane. Car seats provided less than desirable protection, and seat belts were inadequate for any child under age 3." "The biggest loser in the tests was booster seats. The potential for abdominal and head injury was severe enough for the FFA to say that any child large enough for a booster seat is protected just as well by the airplane seat belts. Forward-facing car seats got mixed reviews. Many proved difficult to install and adjust properly in the cramped aircraft setting." "Furthermore, because airline lap belts and seat backs operate at different angles and positions than in cars, often a car seat cannot operate properly." "And once installed, the forward-facing car seats performed poorly. In tests of eight different forward-facing seat models, all resulted in the dummy's head hitting the seat in front of it. Also unacceptable is the common practice of holding the child." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Susan Gauch (sgauch@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu) 1) Fly on red-eyes for long trips. Your child should sleep (see above). Be sure there is someone else to care for him/her when s/he wakes the next day as you will be beat. 2) Use car seats on planes. Safety aside, children are used to sitting still/sleeping in them so they put up with the confinement better. 3) Board the plane at the last possible moment. You may choose to pre-board one person with the gear, but put the child on the plane at the last possible moment. 4) Bring lots of finger foods. 5) Have babies nurse/drink a bottle for takeoff and landing. Feed dry foods during the flight so the child will be thirstly upon landing. 6) Bring one or two new toys for long flights. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Steve Wincor (wincor@force.decnet.lockheed.com) We have gone on many trips over the years and have taken or sons with us. The trips have included cruises, plane trips, and long car rides. About two years ago we went on a six week trip to Europe. A friend of mine gave me this Jet-Lag diet which really worked. As an aside the only problem on the flight itself was our 4 yr old son wanting to sleep sideways on the airline seats...a painful experience for us. Other than that he was kept busy on the plane with various toys. The trip itself was great; we were worn out, but he was going strong till we got back. He did not speak any languages, but made many friends (kids seem to speak a universal language!). Here is the Jet-Lag "diet". Here is one version of the Jet-Lag diet. The concept for most are the same. I have also typed in part of the article about this diet. You may want to ask your pediatrician if it's OK for children. This is a diet that has nothing to do with making you skinny; it makes you timely! This diet is based on a three day feast and fast cycle to help reset the body's internal clock to a new time zone. * THREE DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE. Eat heartily. Breakfast and lunch should be high in protein, dinner rich in carbohydrates. * TWO DAYS BEFORE. Eat only 700 calories: juices, salads, light soups. * ONE DAY BEFORE. Eat heartily. * DEPARTURE DAY. Don't eat at all on the plane UNLESS the meal is cued to the time zone you are traveling to. Don't drink alcoholic beverages. The pattern of fast-feast-fast will lead your body to anticipate change. In particular, the lack of carbohydrates on day two seems to help the body clock adjust to the new zone. Excerpts from a Chicago Tribune article. The Jet Lag diet was developed by an Argonne National Labs scientist. Years of research on circadian rhythms, the body's internal clock have produced a method of avoiding jet lag by changing meal times, food eaten and environmental influences, said Charles Ehret, an Argonne biologist. The Army recently used his jet lag diet to keep troops alert after a 14hr flight from Fort Bragg, NC to Egypt to participate in maneuvers. (article talks specifics...as listed above) Feast days should consist of three full meals. Breakfast and luch should be high in protein, which helps the body stay awake, dinner should be high in carbohydrates, such as pasta, which stimulate sleep. Fast day meals are low in carbohydrates and calories. A typical meal would be about 700 calories, such as a skimpy salad, thin soup, and half of a slice of bread. Coffee and other drinks containing caffeine should be consumed only in the afternoon. On the trip,, such as a nine hour flight from New York to Paris that crosses six time zones, a traveler should time meals so that the last meal eaten on the plane is appropriate to the most recent meal in the new time zone. If the traveler arrives in Paris during the day, he should eat a high protein breakfast or lunch to keep awake. If the traveler lands in the evening, he should have a high carbohydrate meal to induce sleep. ----- All the info contained in the article, and diet need to be followed to the letter. This really works. I know many people that fly to Europe regularly and use this, and they say it works. So good luck! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Judy Leedom Tyrer <judy@locus.com> Get the bulkhead. The extra leg room can be used for the child to play on the floor or sleep (infants only). The disadvantages come in that you don't have a tray and if the child is on the floor, you have to curl your feet up in your lap or lean them against the wall in front of you. But by an large I have always preferred the bulkhead to seats further back. Preboard. A lot of people will advise against this as it means you are on the plane longer. However, on a busy flight, without preboarding you may not be able to put your baggage in the overhead directly above you, in which case getting at the diaperbag, etc is much more difficult. Even though children under 2 don't need seats, I highly recommend buying a seat for a mobile child (car seat safety issues aside). My toddlers have never been great at being held once they could walk. But somehow sitting in their own seat is not as confining as sitting in Mom's lap. If possible, get a layover on long cross country flights. Two 2 hour flights with lots of time to run around and play in the airport (and, of course, buy a new toy for the next leg of the trip) is far easier than one 4 hour flight. Don't feed your child pickles for lunch before a flight (;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Susan Carr (smc@sequent.com) Couldn't remember who's keeping the file on this stuff, but somebody recently mentioned tape for airplane travel. My husband just went round trip portland to Rhode Island with David, who's 3 1/2. The most popular (infact, almost exclusively played with) toy was the "office supplies". This included a whole roll of scotch tape, a large pack of colored post-its, stapler & lots of extra staples, paper punch, paper clips, scissors, rubber bands, glue sticks, markers, crayons, a lined tablet, and a pile of construction paper. The airline crew probably spent hours removing the resulting mess from the walls, but as people were deboarding several complimented us on what a well-behaved child David was on the plane! He has continued to play with this stuff in the month he's been home - it's still one of his favorite toys. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Lipman We (me, wife, and 2 kids (2 and 4 years old)) flew from Palm Beach, FL to Washington, DC changing planes in Atlanta. We bought 3 tickets and took the car seat on the plane for the 4 year old. The almost 2 year old sat on my lap. In the past, when we traveled with only one infant the bulkhead seats were OK. It gave us room to put the infant on the floor, however, now we don't request those seats. To our horror, we were assigned those seats on the Atlanta to Washington part of the trip. That presented several problems. (1) Getting the car seat in was almost impossible. The armrest for the bulkhead seats is unmovable, making getting the car seat to fit very difficult. (2) Once the car seat was in place, the tray table, which stows in the fixed armrest, could not be used because of the car seat. (3) The tray table at the bulkhead seats is lower than a regular car seat, making eating with a child on my lap impossible. Fortunately, Delta was able to switch the three of us with the three people behind us who agreed to move. In return, they got free drink coupons. We didn't. Oh, a fourth reason the bulkhead seats wouldn't have worked out (4) No place to leave carry-on baggage at your feet or at least very cramped. Even with the non-bulkhead seats, with our carseat (Fisher-Price) and the seat spacing, the traytable could not be used on that particular flight. We could use the tray table with the carseat on the the legs of our flight. For meals on the plane we had one regular meal, one kids meal (hot dog or hamburger), and one fruit plate. This gave a lot of variety and kept everybody happy. The best eating seating arrangement was put the 2 year old in the car seat, put the armrest up between my wife and I and squeeze the 4 year old between us. She's small. One meal one one tray table, two meals (with trays turned 90 degrees) on the other tray table. The only thing I didn't have room for was my right arm. It was up on top of the seat or on my wife's shoulder. Anybody else with any other airplane travel tips? I must also put in a word for my kids, they were real troopers. Between going to the airport, waiting to leave, changing planes and waiting in Atlanta (the longest walk to change gates I've ever taken), waiting for our luggage (it came out almost last), and taking a taxi home was 8 hours. Funny, in that time we could have driven almost halfway home. ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Diane C. Lin (dlin@weber.ucsd.edu) Tips for Long Plane Trips with Infant: 1. Buy a ticket for your baby, and bring a car seat on board. Not only is it safer (especially during rough turbulence), but it's almost impossible to deal with a squirming baby for long trips. Our trip was 13 hours flight time, and it wouldn't have been manageable without a car seat. 2. Put the car seat in the window position so that you can use the other two seats to change diapers (assuming both parents are traveling together). This made things so much easier than trying to figure out how to change a poopy diaper in the cramped lavatory space. 3. Order special meals for each leg of the journey. Not only will you get something of usually higher quality than most, but you will get your food first! That is a real plus when you have a hungry child on your hands. 4. Bring a bag full of new or seldom-seen toys/books for entertainment. We wrapped each toy/book so that there would be at least a few seconds of entertainment in unwrapping the toy. We doled out a new toy/book whenever Dylan seemed to get really restless. 5. Bring a thermometer and a full bottle of infant Tylenol (or whatever you use) that is *not* expired. We found out the hard way that the bottle we normally keep in our diaper bag had already expired. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ellen Stier (estier@nike.calpoly.edu) Just returned from a brief trip from San Jose to Milwaukee, Wisconsin and back, with our son, who turned two during the trip. He did great! I followed (your?) advice about wrapping treats during the flights. We wrapped snacks as well as new books, etc. It really helped break it up. By our last (fifth) flight, he just wanted to unwrap things and didn't care much what was in it. The wrapping still entertained him, however. The plane flight entertainment that was the most effective was: I had taken about a dozen business cards and drawen primitive things on the backs (triangles, squares, circles, shirt and pants, flowers, etc. -- I'm no artist!). I put them in one zipper pocket of his new fanny pack (also a hit). He ended up using the air sickness bag as a new container and spending a long time transferring little items (especially the cards) from his pack to the bag and back and forth. He also colored on the cards, and enjoyed naming them and trying to find the matches (I'd hand him a circle and he'd look through the other cards for circles.) -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cooper@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lynette Cooper) Subject: Trip Report: 1 yr old on plane I flew cross-country with my 13 mo old daughter for the Thanksgiving holiday. I was VERY nervous, but everything turned out fine. We flew American, and I didn't buy a seat for her. Nor did I carry on a carseat. I did reserve the bulkhead window seat for all flights though. The first leg of the journey was 2 hours, then a 1 hour layover in Chicago, and 4-1/2 hours to Seattle. The only carry-on I had was Melissa's diaper bag (stuffed to the max!). I carried her because 1) she likes to be held, especially in strange places, 2) I didn't want to fool with an umbrella stroller, although it does fit overhead, and 3) she is small for her age; less than 18 lbs. I brought her crib blanket, teddy bear, and binky. I thought these would make her feel more inclined to sleep. She did nap during the 4-1/2 hour flights, once on the floor at my feet and once in my lap. I just laid our coats on the floor and put her blanket over her. She did take-up some of the adjoining floor space, but my father was next to me so it was ok. I brought plenty of juice (three 8 oz bottles) and enough food to make a meal for her. As we were taking off and landing I gave her some crackers to make her thirsty and some juice to help her ears adjust to the pressure. She had no problem with the pressure change; probably because she sucked on her bottle just at the right times. It's next to impossible to eat the meals they serve if you have no extra seat for the kid. Of course I had diapers. Only enough for the flights though. Thank goodness didn't have to change a poopy diaper during the flight, that would have been extremely difficult. She pooped just before we disembarked one flight! I did the old diaper change while she stands routine otherwise. I bought new toys before the trip, just little gadgety things at the five and dime. That is what she likes best. I tried to get SMALL things, so as not to take up too much room in the diaper bag. She didn't really play with the toys, she was much more interested in looking at the person next to us and the people in the seat behind us. She was really very good and easy to handle. She did get over tired on the 4-1/2 hour flight home and when I tried to lay her on the floor to sleep she just started screaming (my worst nightmare!) and continued for about 3 minutes, then fell asleep in my arms. But considering how long the flight was, I don't think 3 mins bothered anyone too much:-). Not buying a ticket for her worked out very well at her age. Only because 1) she's little enough to hold on my lap for a long period, 2) she would prefer to be held than to sit alone, 3) she hates being cooped-up in her carseat for too long, 4) she was small enough to sleep on the floor at the bulkhead, and 5) she's not really rambunctious. I would however, buy a ticket for her if she were much bigger. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jvp@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Jim Pieronek ) We have traveled by plane with our son at ages 6mo., 9mo., and 20mo. He did great on all three trips! The deal with babies on planes is that they are free under age 2 as long as you hold them in your lap. You have to pay for the seat if you want to have a reserved seat for the car seat. So here's what you do: 1. When you make your reservation tell them that you are traveling with an infant. The bulkhead seats (up front, behind first class) that babies usually wind up in are not assigned until the day of checkin on most airlines, but if you tell them early they will have it in their record on the computer. Bulkheads are really not necessary for an infant, they become important when your child gets to the age where smacking the head of the person in the seat ahead of them would be amusing. On the other hand, there is a little more floor space in that row and you can use it for a changing area. The other way to do a change is to flip up the arms on the seats - you will get more than enough room for an infant. If you make your reservations directly with the airline, call them at off-peak hours. They will be under less pressure and will be able to spend lots of time answering your questions. They are usually staffed 24 hours a day. 2. Request a flight that has low traffic - don't get on a flight out of Cleveland at 5PM on Friday; it will be packed. The reason to stay off of a heavy flight will become apparent below. 3. If there are two adults and one child traveling, request a window seat and an aisle seat in the same row with an empty seat in between. Most airlines will do this for you. That middle seat will be about the last one to be filled, because nobody wants to sit next to a potentially screaming baby in a packed row. 4. Get to the airport good and early, (an hour or so) and ask the ticket agent how heavily the plane is loaded and find out if anyone was placed in the middle seat. If the flight is light and no one is sitting in the middle seat you should have no trouble wandering on to the plane and using your car seat. If someone does show up to claim the seat, you can pop the car seat in the overhead bin and hang on to junior. 5. I fly in and out of Boston a lot. The ticket counter people are always taking a lot of guff from the customers. If you approach them pleasantly and politely and present your requests with an attitude of being happy with whatever you get, they will generally do their best to help you out - you could be the best customer that they will see all day. 6. Since you mention that your child is 5 months old and doesn't take a bottle, I assume he is breastfed. When you get on (preboard) have a stewardess get you a blanket. My wife nursed our son on the plane with a blanket over him and no one was the wiser. It might help at takeoff and landing. 7. Be friendly with the people sitting around you. Introduce yourself and introduce your child - most people like babies, some just don't know it. If your child starts to cry and they have seen you to be a pleasant individual they will tend to be sympathetic rather than annoyed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: reberhar@inf.ethz.ch ( Rolf Eberhardt ) I've returned from a US trip with my (now) 11 month old daughter. I'd like to thank everyone for their helpful hints. Now my two cents worth: When flying *always* take extra clothes for yourself along. In the flight to the States my daughter waasn't feeling well so I had her lying on my stomach. All of a sudden she descided to throw up... (We had been seated in Business class because the plane was overbooked and you should have seen the faces of the businessmen around us when they looked up from their PowerBooks :-) The stewardess suggested we should be seated next to the emergency hatch (on a 747) as there would be enough room to let the baby lie on the floor. I can't recommend this seat as it's very drafty there. Otherwise I can only recommend travelling with small kids. Americans absolutely adore small children, they aren't too mobile yet (and they fly and sleep for free ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chirlian@fieser.brynmawr.edu (L.E. Chirlian) We recently took a trip to West Virginia (Trenton - Pittsburgh - Charlston) and back on US Air. We took our small stroller (Aprica Mini-go-Lightly which I believe has been replaced by the Citi-mini which looks about the same) and were able to wheel it right down the aisle of the plane to our seats. We stored it in the overhead bin on three of the four legs of our trip. On one leg of the trip the plane was packed so while we still could wheel Libby onto the plane, the flight attendant took the stroller and checked it. It was waiting for us when we got off the plane so it wasn't too much of a hassel. The stroller was easy to open and close (it has a one handed mechanism) and is very light so it was easy to throw up into the overhead bins. I was quite pleased (note, I have no affiliation with Aprica). Having the stroller made it very convenient changing planes and we also just used it for walks around the airport (we had a 2.5 hour layover on the way home :-(). We also had our car seat (infant type with a carry handle), a diaper bag, a brief case, a carry on bag and a pocketbook, not to mention a baby. Whew, looking back I can't believe we made it. I don't know if US Air just has pleasant staff or if it was the baby but everyone was very helpful. People carried the stroller up the stairs to the plane (Trenton doesn't have jetways) so we only had to carry Libby, the car seat and the rest (Jerry looked a little like a pack mule). I hope this information is helpful to anyone contemplating a plane trip. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Betsy Hanes Perry (betsyp@apollo.hp.com) Betsy's Golden Rules of Sane Air Travel with Toddlers: 1. Don't leave home without a Travel Magna-Doodle. 2. Order two kids' meals -- one for you! My husband and I agreed that Ellen's USAIR kid's meal was MUCH more appetizing than our lunches. (Macaroni & cheese, chicken fingers, grapes, and Oreos versus Mystery Stuffed Chicken, Greasy Rice, Tossable Salad, and Spice Cake.) Call the airline 24 hours in advance and tell them you want a special meal; they'll do the rest. 3. Make sure the people who issue your boarding pass know you're travelling with an infant seat. On one leg of our flight, we had to move, because the infant seat would have prevented use of the emergency exit in the row behind. Fortunately, the row ahead was happy to swap with us. 4. Make sure there's a complete change of clothes in the diaper bag. (I know, you knew this anyway.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vicki O'Day (oday@netcom.com) I haven't been reading misc.kids for awhile, so I don't know if this has been discussed recently. But we had a reasonably good travel experience with Emma (3 1/2) and Patrick (5 weeks) and I wanted to pass on a couple of things. My husband had the great idea of buying a disposable camera for Emma to use. It took her about 7-8 shots to become comfortable with holding the camera so her fingers could easily press the shutter, but once she got that down pat, she had a great time with it. She made a very personal trip record, and since it turned out that we adults never got around to taking pictures, her photos are all we have. The trip was to Amsterdam, and we mostly have pictures of trams, ducks and duck nests and other park animals, and people riding bicycles. This was a great success - it made her more interested in her surroundings and less cranky when events were moving slowly for her. We travelled on KLM Royal Dutch Airline, and they were very kid-friendly. They provided a bassinet for Patrick in a bulkhead seat, a kid-sized mat for Emma to use lying on the floor, good kid meals, and lots of toys. Interestingly, Patrick had no trouble adjusting to the time change on the way to Amsterdam. It seemed that at 5 1/2 weeks, the cue of light/dark patterns was more important to him than his own newly-developed night/day sleep habits. But when he returned at 7 weeks, habit was stronger than light, and it took 5-6 days for him to get back to this time zone. There was a 9-hour difference between the two time zones. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dmusican@cvbnet.CV.COM (Diane Musicant x4140 5-2) Subject: Summary - Flying with 19-month old Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 12:26:04 GMT I would like to thank everyone who responded to my request about air travel with a 19 month old. I tried to thanks everyone by e-mail, but I know I missed a few people. I've summarized here, and then I listed the actual e-mails I received. For those who missed the original post, I am flying from Boston to San Diego with my 19 mo old daughter. I would like to carry on only a backpack with food, toys, and diapers. The question was what toys to bring that are inexpensive, small, and will occupy as much of my daughter's time as possible. Thanks! Diane Musicant *********************************************************** Summary: Interactive books (with flaps or "feelies") Magnadoodle Crayons and paper Baby doll or teddy with clothes, bottle, spoon, etc Air sickness bags can be used to color on to make goodie bag or hand puppet. Wrap up surprises to open up throughout the trip Small toy cars Walkman Food Plastic figurines (animals and people) Stickers 5 - 10 Duplo Blocks Roll of tape, magazine pictures, stick glue, child scissors Pics attached to cardboard Stacking containers filled with odds and ends Baby wipes to play cleanup Costume jewelry and mirror Dressup toys w/ zippers, buttons, hooks, etc Small puppets Wind up toys ******* rollo@xylogics.com ************************************ Hi, Diane. Isabel's a month older than your daughter, and I'm trying to think what I'd take. Maybe: books, especially ones that have flaps and things to pull (the Spot books come in miiature versions now, and there are others) a smallish baby doll with clothes/diapers to change - Isabel's into doll stuff in a big way right now - oh also a toy bottle and little spoon to feed the doll ******* Joanne.Araki@Eng.Sun.COM ****************************** I recall watching a morning show and this was suggested: Use those air sickness bags they have on the airplanes and have your daughter color on it and use it put her "goodies" in. Or make a hand puppet and color on a face. Then the 2 of you could stage a puppet show for each other. I've also heard of people wrapping up "surprises" for their kids to open throughout the trip. Makes it kind of interesting. ******* cew@med.unc.edu *************************************** I flew from North Carolina to LA with my 21 month old one Xmas. I bought a bunch of cheap little toys (at our local Dolllar Store) like a couple of little books, some little toy cars, what ever looked iteresting. I then proceeded to distribute these one at a time about every hour. That way he had something new to play with. He also loved listening to his tapes on my walkman. Other passengers would walk by and start laughing to see him sitting there plugged into a walkman. Meal time took up about 45 minutes an dhe had a great time eating off the tray. ******* heather@binky.ICS.UCI.EDU ****************************** I flew from California to Texas last month with my 32 month old son and my 16 month old daughter with me. Our flight had two stops on the way, so we spent plenty of time on planes. *brag on* The kids were great, extremely well behaved, *brag off* but afterwards I was exhausted anyway! They didn't play much at all, really, just looked out the window and slept. Except, of course, when we were on the ground during the stopovers, during which my daughter screamed. Presumably she just wanted to get going, since as soon as the plane moved, she shut up. The crayons and travel etch-a-sketch were pretty much ignored, but the new books were a hit (little 99 cent paperbacks). I found something made by slinky that they both enjoyed. It was made of plastic and had lots of little pieces shaped like macaroni (which my 16 month old did not know how to take apart). It comes all in one piece, so if you don't take it apart, your daughter may not think to do it either. It twists and bends into fun shapes and cost about $2. I wish I could remember what it was called! The other MAJOR favorite thing I took was food. They snacked like they'd never been fed. I got snacks they rarely have like cheese cracker/ peanut butter sandwich things, and pepperidge farm goldfish. I also got some flexible plastic figures (ariel, sebastian, the genie from aladdin, etc) which kept them entertained for a few minutes. They really liked being able to reach into the "goody bag" to select their own toys. Oh, and they had absolutely no problems with their ears during any of the takeoffs/landings. I guess they're old enough to correct for it without thinking. ******* guarino@MicroUnity.com ******************************* I had good luck when my daughters were young with stickers. They are small and light, and you can let them stick them on a lot of things - your hands, the seat, paper, etc. ******* hyler@ast.saic.com *********************************** A few things I remember being pretty successful at that age: - 5-10 Duplo blocks. Not really to make much with so much as putting together and taking apart. - Small rubber/plastic animals. I think we had 4 cats and a crocodile. The cats fit in the crocodile's mouth, not intentionally ;-) - Interactive books like Pat the Bunny and Pat the Cat It's been quite a while, but mostly I remembered David wanting to watch the people, eat and sleep. That was a 4 hour flight. ******* menon@Colorado.EDU ************************************* When I travel with Ezra, I take: a roll of scotch tape...he loves to unravel it, then uses it to stick pictures together...a bunch of pictures I have cut out of magazines that he can use to tape together...a stick of glue, just in case he doesn't want the tape...a pair of child's scissors....several tupperware/rubbermaid type bowls that fit inside eachother, filled with cheerios, crayons, other interesting odds and ends....my walkman cassette player and his favorite cassettes (a rare treat for him, but I take it away immediately if he messes around with the volume)...picture books... stickers...a teddy or doll and ME (his favorite toy;) When we get home, I load up the duffle bag and store it back in the closet. It is al ready to go the next time we're on our way. ******* llarson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ************************ I like to take lots of books as that is my daughter's favorite. Usually 3-4 work. I can also give her a baby wipe and keep her occupied for 20+ minutes "cleaning" the floor, wall, arm of the seat. A couple of old costume jewelry necklaces and a mirror will also keep her entertained. We are going to Hawaii over Thanksgiving time and I figured that was the perfect time (she will be 23 months) to teach her about dressing, so I am going to bring a piece of material with snaps, buttons, a zipper, hook and eye and velcro for her to practice on. So far she's been a good flyer, but after 11 hours in a plane overnight on the return from HI, we'll see! Good luck. ******* aiko@epoch.com ********************************************** Hi-- around that age, we brought a tiny cloth puppet and small sesame St and mickey mouse character figurines and tiny plastic cars. Someplace like Learning Express (don't know exactly where you live?) has a good selection. I also got her a little plastic snoopy bag (ToysRUS I think has stuff like that) to put all her stuff into and she played with just dumping it out, picking up everything, etc. She wasn't into the drawing toys like magna doodle yet then either btw; if your daughter isn't using them yet it may not be worth bringing. Also, mini boxes of raisins make nice toys as well as snacks, if you don't mind picking them up. ******* Annonymous *************************************************** i just went to england and back with a 17 month-old, and the plane trips worked out wonderfully. no crying whatsoever. it was very easy. i suggest: - nasal decongestant just in case the little chap develops a cold and his ears hurt. i didn't need to this time because my baby has ear tubes now. - pictures attached to cardboard with a see-through sticky plastic. (laminating sheet?). i did this with pictures of favourite toys and people and things and put the pictures on both sides. kept him busy for ages, and works in the car too. - tiny pop-up books. there's a lovely one called "dinner time" with animals in it. for the night flight it was all i needed to keep my baby occupied. - wind up toys. - spot books with flaps and things behind the flaps. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) Subject: Re: Traveling Tips Needed Date: 4 Nov 1993 20:01:31 GMT CREECH@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Teresa Creech) writes: [lots of stuff I agreed with, so I hope she'll forgive me for having a different opinion about one thing] |> When the attendant calls for pre-boarding, they mean you, not all of |> the business men crowded around the door waiting to get on. You need |> to get on the plane and settled so that you aren't blocking the aisle |> when everyone else is getting on. When I flew with Jordan to San Diego (just me and him, changed planes once en route), we made a point of being the LAST ones on the place, rather than the first. I didn't want to deal with keeping him constrained while everyone else boarded, so we asked if we could be the last ones on. The boarding-person said "sure", so we ran around the chairs while everyone else boarded. Then we boarded as the line was pretty much gone. Since we were on last, we didn't have to wait quite as long before he could get up and stand in the aisle. Obviously, YMMV, and this would only work if you travel light (all I had was an umbrella stroller and his diaper bag). BTW, the "last minute checking" of the stroller worked really well. I left it (tagged) at the door that goes down to the plane, and when I got off the plane, it was waiting for me. It was great--I had it in the airport, but didn't have to maneuver it through the airplane aisle! (Some people have had less success with this--I was quite satisfied, though) --Beth Weiss bweiss@cs.arizona.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dolson@ucsd.edu (Mark Dolson) Subject: Re: Traveling Tips Needed Date: 7 Nov 1993 01:46:48 GMT Beth Weiss (bweiss@cs.arizona.edu) wrote: : When I flew with Jordan to San Diego (just me and him, changed planes once : en route), we made a point of being the LAST ones on the place, rather than : the first. If you have two parents the ideal scenario is to have one parent get on first with all the stuff, then have the other parent and child(ren) board at the end of the line. We try to do this whenever possible. -- Laura Dolson dolson@crl.ucsd.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: rupa_bose@qm.sri.com (Rupa K. Bose) Subject: Re: Flying with 20-month-old - Help! Date: 29 Nov 1993 17:09:02 GMT In article <931123.80929.MARTY2217@delphi.com>, MARTY2217@delphi.com wrote: > We're flying to grandma's house for > the Christmas holiday. This is three hours in the air and one plane change. > Any tip and tricks for keeping our daughter occupied, comfortable, and > otherwise under control? A friend just told me what she did with her little son on a ten-hour flight...she got ten little toys, wrapped them individually, and hid them in her bag. She gave one to the baby to open every hour. It apparently worked like a dream. For the parent with the 4 and 6 year olds ... what worked for us on a 24 hour journey to India when our kids were that age was their own little bags (backpacks would be fine) packed with games and toys that THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO PLAY WITH UNTIL THEY WERE ON THE PLANE. My daughter, luckily, was a reader by them, so she got six books, and worked her way through about five of them. My son wasn't, so I got him cheap electronic toys (watch for noisy ones, though, even small sounds can drive fellow passengers bananas if they go on ad infinitum). Little handheld electronic games where the sound could be turned off were great. Also things like a travel version of Magna doodle and etch-a-sketch. My son also liked various monstrous plastic figures; if he has a couple fo them, he makes up stories about them. Things to avoid are little, roly things that disappear and the kids go hunting frantically and noisily for them all up and down the row. It took me a couple of hours of shopping (actually, I just kept adding to the pile any time I shopped the previous month) but it was well worth it. For sanity's sake - we made a rule that only one toy could be out of the bag at a time, unless two were needed for the game. (this also prevents instant boredom with the entire bagful.) Rupa ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jgassman@bio.ri.ccf.org (Jennifer Gassman) Subject: Re: Help - Flying to UK with 9 mo. old When we fly, we always have 1) small hand puppets 2) small toy camera 3) receiver of small toy telephone 4) books 5) snacks (I also bring matchbox cars for playing with at the airports.) I had success with the puppets early on. From age 1 to now (my daughter is 4), we get a lot of use out of the camera (Let's take a picture of the clouds! Let's take a picture of the stewardess) and the camera (Let's call grandma and tell her we are on the way! Let's call Catherine and see if it is raining at home!) And they are all good when the kid is stuck in the car seat. Books and snacks are necessities, of course. When my daugher was about 13 months, I used the juice and snacks too much and she vomited all over me at the end of our first flight, just as we were deplaning. The stewardesses were helpful and thank heavens I was wearing a sweatshirt over a turtleneck, so putting the sweatshirt in a plastic bag til I got to my destination was okay. You might want to consider dressing in layers... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Diane Dineer Re: traveling with an active toddler We just got back yesterday from a trip Miami-New York and back with Haley (23 mos). For the most part, she was an angel. The secrets were as follows: 1. She had an ear infection and the doctor suggested giving her benedryl before the flight to make sure she was as clear as possible and wouldn't experience ear pain. This also made her drowsy. I would not have any qualms about a dose of benedryl even if she didn't have the ear infection. (I know I am going to get flamed!) It's not like you are flying every day and wantonly administering unnecessary drugs for your convenience. Having your child sleep for a good part of the flight can make the trip more comfortable for both of you. 2. I bought a bunch of stuff and wrapped it up and put it in our carry-on bag, like stickers (Haley's a major sticker fanatic), play-doh, markers (washable, of course), coloring books, blank paper, etc. It made it a big treat when I gave her something and it provided necessary diversions when boredom set in. 3. I brought an insulated bag with a mesh bag on top...sorry, I have no idea who made it or where I bought it...I think Toys R Us. Anyway, the insulated part stored her juice, yogurt, antibiotics she was on, gobble sticks and one of those blue ice things that keeps stuff cold. The mesh bag held all the goodies along with some normally forbidden treats such as gummy bears. 4. If the flight isn't full and you can get seated next to an empty seat, bring your car seat aboard. It is safer for the child and can make it a much more comfortable flight for you. Our flight was full yesterday and sitting with a 27-pound sleeping child in my lap was not exactly comfortable, not to mention the fact that every move you make might wake the child. On the four legs of our trip, Haley only really cried once and it as because she was really tired. After a few minutes, she found her thumb and was off to dreamland. I was amazed that I got *no* dirty looks from strangers when Haley was crying. Only concern and offers to help. A pleasant surprise. I have had more dirty looks in the grocery store when Haley has cried! Diane (Mom to Haley b. 6/23/93 and ? due 1/8/96) ======================================================================= One of your contributors, Deb Galdes, submitted an item which provided highlights of an alarming article about airplane safety which was printed in her local magazine. The article indicated that toddlers may not be protected in a car seat due to the airplane seat construction and arrangements. Essentially, in a sudden stop (or crash) the child seat may move sufficiently so that the child's head will hit the seat in front of it. I followed up on this tip and obtained a copy of the study and the number for the FAA subject matter expert on the topic. The study is DOT/FAA/AM-94-19 by the FAA and the ccontact is John Petrakis, (202) 257-9937. Petrakis informed me that there had been no further study on this issue; however, he indicated that they tested under the worst-case scenarios. He also said that it would be virtually impossible to determine in advance what plane and type of seat one would be flying on. He said that first class seats would probably be safe and bulkhead seats may also be. Since these two alternatives were not an option for us, I pursued an acceptable solution. After consulting with various people, I determined that we needed to create a portable seat belt, which we could fasten around the back of the car seat and the seatback to secure the seat if the normal belt failed. I located a leather/sadlery shop which had the seatbelt material and buckle (like a giant shoe buckle). He had a machine which securely attached the buckle to the strap, and he used a heated tool to melt small holes at 2-in. increments around the belt (since we did not know in advance how long it should be to make it tight). He only charged us $20. We used it on our flight and it worked like a charm. Hope this is useful to some readers like us who can't bear to subject their child to a risk we were not ourselves taking. Thanks for providing this medium to share useful information. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Risa Bernstein (rbernste@btg.com) Rec'd: November 5, 1996 I recently flew home with my 2 3/4 year old son, Colin, from Washington DC to Providence, RI. Granted, the trip is only a little over an hour, and after reading everyone's articles about flying halfway around the world with their children, I'm in awe! Anyway, this is actually the 4th time Colin has flown, but he's a year older now and I didn't know how he'd react to everything. No problem - he was an angel both coming and going. We boarded last (highly recommended). I checked his car seat with the baggage because he's big enough to sit on a seat with a seatbelt, and also because the last time we flew and he sat *in* his car seat, he drove us crazy. This time, I gave him the window seat and he stayed put the whole time both ways, no complaints. I brought one new toy, a really neat pop-up book, plus another favorite book, and he read both most of the time. I also brought juice and snacks (USAIR doesn't feed people on these short flights). For some reason, only on this particular flight, my ears get very stopped up and *very* painful. I was worried that Colin would have the same problem - but he didn't. He pulled at his ears maybe once and I asked him if they were OK and he said yes. No other comments - I was really amazed. Coming back, I was totally deaf! The worst (or best) part was when we landed in DC on the return - the plane couldn't taxi to the concourse and we sat for about an extra 1/2 hour on the runway. Colin didn't even seem to notice - he just took turns laying down in my lap and sitting up and reading. All in all, probably the best trip I've ever taken with him (although he did sit for a 5 hour trip down to NC this summer, also without complaint). We're flying back up in December and I can only hope and pray that that trip is as uneventful as this one was! Thanks to everyone for all the great travel tips! ========================================================================= *** CAR TIPS *** From: Steven List (itkin@mrspoc.transact.com) Recently, before a short car trip, I purchased a package at the supermarket: a 3-D comic book and an audio tape of Rocketeer. While I did it as a whim, I am generally fond of books on tape and story tapes for kids. My kids have generally enjoyed them. I was AMAZED at the success this combination had in the car. We took two or three short trips (<= 1 hour), and the kids asked to listen to the tape over and over, and whoever had the book and the 3-D glasses seemed particularly happy. The kids are 6, 8, and 10. Basically, I think story tapes are great in cars when all can listen, and in other circumstances where headphones would be appropriate. And when travelling and staying in hotel rooms - bring along a tape player (a little cheap one with built in speaker will do) and a few story tapes to settle the kids down at night - works great! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jane Marcus (janem@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com) We have 2 children, ages 1.5 and 3.5, and we have frequently gone on day trips in addition to a couple of vacations by car. Here are a few things that we do to help everyone have a good time in the car: -- Take food. If we're on the road and the kids get hungry, we bring healthy snacks for them. Since our youngest is now able to handle grapes, we found this to be the perfect snack since grapes don't make a mess, they help keep thirst under control, they can be stored for at least a day in the car without refrigeration, and are nutritious. Other snacks that are okay are cheerio's (good for babies who can't chew well), and raisins (although raisins can be sticky). We also tend to take juice boxes in a cooler, although at this point we only let the kids have these when we are stopped and out of the car. -- Take music. We have a supply of cassette tapes that we bring along on a trip. Disney tapes with song classics are the kids' favorites, but they also like Raffi. -- Take sunscreen, and perhaps hats and sunglasses, if your kids will wear these. If the sun is strong and our kids are napping in the car, we hang a towel across the backseat window where the sun is coming in. This helps them feel comfortable to nap and they don't get quite so sweaty in the summer. -- We use old crib blankets to cover the kids up in the car when they are sleeping at night; these seem to be the perfect size for the car. -- Take toys. Our kids don't play much with toys in their carseats, but many kids do. We mostly get out the toys at a rest stop or when we go into a restaurant. In our diaper bag, we always carry some paper and crayons; our youngest now is starting to like to color, but this is mostly for our 3.5 year old. -- Quite often when we travel, I put the contents of my purse into a backpack. Then I have room to carry some important kid items in there so that I can always find them (important in cramped car conditions), and this frees my hands for other things when we are not in the car. -- You may think about taking a potty for young kids. Our 3.5 year old is accustomed to using a regular toilet sometimes, but generally feels more comfortable using her potty when we're on the road, especially if the only place to go is an outhouse. And a potty is great to prevent an accident, which is a semi-disaster in the car. We have found that we prefer to lug the potty around rather than put her down on dirty toilet seats anyways. But it is somewhat of a pain. We put the potty in a big plastic bag and take a separate plastic bag with toilet paper. Then we get the fun job of cleaning the potty after each use, so we bring lots of wipes... I'm sure that there are plenty of other things that help, but these are the most obvious ones that come to mind. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: G. Levine (G.LEVINE@pdnis.paradyne.com) Submission for the Car Travel category, written by my wife. Mary Ellen: In response to Jane Marcus' suggestion: Not wanting to insult anyone's intelligence, here's a warning about grapes--they are one of the foods most frequently associated with choking in children under six. (Some others are hot dogs, nuts, generally anything roundish and firm). I may be somewhat paranoid about this since I nearly lost my younger son at the age of fifteen months when he swallowed a piece of a Lego set, but we always cut hot dogs and grapes lengthwise in half, and I would especially tend to do this ina moving car. Anything firm and chunky can be a hazard, for instance if the car hits a bump while the child is eating. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Judy Leedom Tyrer (judy@locus.com) Okay, this is terribly decadent, but we have a small portable VCR (part of one of those old cameras with the VCR you carry on your shoulder - they're so outmoded now because of camcorders you can pick a used on up cheap) and a small portable TV. We got a twin adapter cable and plug both into the cigarette lighter and bring our video tapes with us. This made a 9 hour car trip VERY smooth. Of course, the driver went nuts ;-) Stop often (every 2 hours) and give the children a chance to run around if they are restless (obviously this isn't important if the kids are asleep or happily involved in a movie). Have a cooler with food and drinks easily accesible. Buy a van. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kate Gregory (gregory@csri.toronto.edu) First, music. A 4 year old can listen on headphones, or the whole car can listen and sing along. You know your friends. Standard kids stuff, or perhaps a cause you like. If it's folky, a copy of Rise up Singing goes too: it will have the words to most of the songs. Heck, it's a pretty good stand alone item because of all the campfire songs etc in it. Nothing that beeps or flashes or does anything that the parents can't figure out when to expect: a lot of battery operated games are just *awful* if they are played behind you. How about something with many parts (say a collection of miniatures or a set of something) and you wrap each part separately, one per day. Each day a new one is opened and it is exciting in its own right, but after two or three days the kid realizes a set is being formed... For example if the kid is "into" a toy that comes with mucho accessories, the main toy the first day and accessories each of the next, with the big glamour one saved for the end. Maybe even one in the morning and one in the afternoon? If you see them often enough to know what sort of gadgets they own, you could pick up things they don't have but would like: a roll-up sunshade for the kid's window; a juice-box-holder with rigid sides so the kid doesn't squirt juice all over the car; a tray that attaches to the window (works only if the back windows are roll-type windows ie not in a minivan and maybe not in a hatchback); that sort of practical staying-sane-in-the-car stuff. If you know their route, perhaps a "book" of pictures for the child, handmade by cut-and-paste from magazines and/or drawing. Skyscrapers, cows in the field, mountains, that sort of thing. One or two pages per day, so the kid can see "how much farther". Four year olds differ but my younger sisters would both have grasped the concept. Perhaps a companion blank book and a glue stick to fill a half an hour or so each day pasting in souvenir postcards, ticket stubs, interesting feather found in the parking lot etc and creating an instant record of a memorable trip. Perhaps some of the stuff should be labelled with dates (open on Day 3) and some with locations (open in St Louis), again with the route in mind, to get the kid involved in the process and see they are getting there. Gosh, I surprised myself. I'm going to a keep a copy of this for when my almost two year old is bigger. Our favourite canoeing destination is 17 hours from here and we've stopped going: maybe next year we'll start again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Himes <CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu> Subject: A successful long car ride (14.5 mos) We just returned from a trip to the Grandparents for Thanksgiving. We actually had a very pleasant 10 hour car ride with Doug, so I thought I would pass along a few things that worked (although I'm sure NONE of these will work for us on the next trip :-(). 1. Doug's favorite toy in the car was a paper cup from McDonalds with a plastic lid and straw. He spent at least 1/2 hour putting the straw in and pulling it out, taking the lid off and putting it on, etc. We were sure to get another one at the next stop! 2. We had brought a small tote bag with some books and small toys. Actually, doug enjoyed taking them out and handing them to me more than looking at them or playing with them. I think the next time I will bring a few bags with all kinds of stuff--jar lids, film containers, plastic spoons, etc. 3. My sister gave him a circus train toy that makes animal and train noises when you push buttons. This was a big hit, partly since it was new and partly since it made animal noises. (What is it with kids and animal noises, anyway?) 4. Tapes--Raffi, Sharon, Lois, and Bram, and Doug's favorite "Songs for 1's and 2's". This tape drives me crazy, although my husband doesn't mind it. The artist is, I think, Tom Glazer. It has several songs about everyday things in baby's life. It is definitely geared to the interests of a 1 year old, with short simple songs and melodies. 5. Goldfish crackers. Another thing for Doug to take out and put in, and sometimes eat or offer to Mom and Dad. Can you tell we are at the height of the "in and out" stage!!! Well, nothing very original, but the trip went very well (Doug did take a 3 hr nap, too) and we were very apprehensive before starting out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: minett@seismo.CSS.GOV (Debbie Minett) Driving 15 hours (each way!) with an 11 month old Here are some tips that might be useful to someone planning a long car trip with a baby. 1) If possible, try to travel during the baby's longest sleep cycle. We left DC at 7:00pm and arrived at our destination at 10am. This worked really well for us since Emily slept for most of the trip. We also didn't have to worry about how we were going to feed her a meal in the car and we didn't have to stop to feed ourselves either. 2) Spread a large towel over the entire back seat to catch thrown cookies/crackers/bottles. 3) We got a toy that attaches to the car seat that has a steering wheel, horn, mirrors that kept Emily busy and happy for quite a while. I also bought a few new small toys but her favorite "toy" ended up being the map!! |-0 4) Bring a water proof pad to lay the baby on when changing diapers. Change the diaper often!!!! Even though we changed her diaper every few hours, Emily still developed a terrible diaper rash so you may want to stock up on Desitin/Balmex stuff. 5) Bring a jug of water - it comes in handy for clean ups and making bottles on the road. 6) Bring finger foods for the baby (we brought crackers, cookies and cheerios) 7) Be sure to have clothes handy in the car that are appropriate for the weather you're heading for! We went from cold DC to a very unusually COLD Florida so I didn't need the sunsuit I had ready for her - but if it had been hot I would have hated having to unpack the trunk to find it! 8) Bring some plastic bags to put dirty diapers in even if you're just going to throw the diaper in a trash can at a gas station - you'd be surprised what dirty looks you can get from gas station attendants! Happy motoring!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beth@col.hp.com (Beth Vail Jones) Date: 5 May 93 15:13:50 GMT We just returned from a 2-week car trip from Colorado Springs to Phoenix, with extended stops at Canyon de Chelly and Grand Canyon. This was our first long car trip with our kids (ages 2 and 4), and it went well overall. First, the Durango tip: There's a wonderful playground at the edge of town, with a huge play-gym setup (3 slides, a bridge, stairs, chain-ladders, etc.). There is also an old train engine nearby to look at, although you can't touch it. My kids LOVED this playground; we went there 3 times on our trip and they cried every time we had to leave. If you're going to Durango, Colorado this summer with kids, find the Visitors Center and check out the playground. Take LOTS of different kids' music. We listened to kids' tapes nearly the whole time, so it was great to have some that were especially enjoyable by all (my husband generally dislikes kids' songs). Our favorite tapes: Raffi, Singable Songs for the Very Young : The song Willoughby Wallaby helped us out tremendously when we were hiking out of Canyon de Chelly and my 4-year-old didn't want to hike any more; we sang Willoughby- Wallaby-everything all the way up! Spider On the Floor entertained my 2-year-old in restaurants; he even sang it himself, looking at the floor as if there WERE a spider :-). Kids' Songs, and Kids' Song Jubilee, sung by Nancy Cassidy : Her style isn't my favorite, but these tapes have some charming songs (like, I Wanna Be a Dog, and Mama's Soup Surprise) that even adults find hilarious. Disney Children's Favorites, Vol 1-4 : We've had these for a while. I like the singer's voice and the song selection is great. We've heard them about a hundred times, but fortunately we still enjoy them. We had several others, but these were our favorites. I specifically DON'T care for the Wee Sing tapes we have. We also had a few tapes of adult-type music, which was barely tolerated by the kids (don't ask me how they can tell the difference, especially with Joan Baez or Linda Ronstadt, but the kids knew that these were not songs they wanted to hear). Ben did enjoy hearing Jean-Michel Jarre's "Rendezvous" while he napped, though. :-) Take LOTS of small toys for in-car entertainment. For toys in the car, we had a small box with about 10-15 small toys, like rattles, small boats, cars, etc. We also had a few books. The toys were cycled MANY times, and we should have taken at least twice as many, maybe in two separate boxes so we could bring out a "fresh" set every few hours. The Golden Book Sound books (or whatever they're called) provided many hours of entertainment for both kids. These are large books with an electronic panel that has a column of picture-coded "buttons" to activate a corresponding sound. I was amazed how much the kids enjoyed these. I took along a small Etch-A-Sketch and a ViewMaster; when we brought these out on the third day, they amused the kids for about a half-hour maximum. Neither could figure out the Etch-A-Sketch, and both had seen ViewMasters at daycare. Take several toys for in-motel entertainment. We were woefully under-stocked on toys to play with OUT of the car, like at motels and at my parents' house. Next time I'd take 3 or 4 sturdy toys for each child. We did take a few of their favorite videos. They enjoyed watching them at my parents' house, and in Montrose, CO, we found a place to rent a VCR for $3, so they watched a couple of videos there. Their vacation was FILLED with physical activity, so it was nice (for everyone) to have a little quiet time. Don't drive too many hours in a day. When you find your threshold, don't push it. Stop frequently. We never drove more than about 300 miles in a day - usually spending about 5-6 hours buckled in per day. This was about as much as anyone could stand. We made frequent stops to stretch and play. I think we hit nearly every McDonald's and Burger King that had a playground (and we have about a dozen Kid'd Meal toys to show for it, too). We also stopped at Meteor Crater (enjoyed by all), and saw dinosaur tracks (near Mexican Water, AZ, maybe?). If you have specific questions about the places we went, send me email. Beth Jones, mom to Ben (4/22/89) and Andy (4/3/91) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: carolp@teleport.com (Carolyn Peterson) Subject: Re: car activities for 4-year-old Date: 26 May 1994 16:50:25 -0700 We drove 3400 miles with our 4 and 6 year olds last month. Activities that helped us: 1. A walkman for each child and a stack of cassette tapes. They can listen to Sesame Street, Barney, Wee Sing, Raffie, story tapes, etc. They don't have to agree about what they want to listen to. You don't have to listen to it, either. A friend loaned us 2 dozen tapes. We had some to start with. More came from a neighbor's garage sale. 2. Alphabet game 3. 20 questions. The 4 year old tended to think of the same things each time she was answering questions, but she still enjoyed it. 4. Watch cars coming in the other direction. Each person has a different type of vehicle to look for. They can be sorted by colors, number of doors, type of vehicle, etc. Just calling out yours and not bothering to count can keep it from getting competitive. Another version of this is kind of like black-out bingo. Prepare equal size grids for several colors of cars and x out a square every time one is spotted. See which one fills up first. 5. Lap desk, crayons and a coloring book. Our kids have motion sickness in the mornings, but not the afternoons, so this was an afternoon activity. 6. Chewable Dramamine helped with motion sickness and added a morning nap to their schedules. 7. We had a map of the US for the kids to mark where we had travelled each time we stopped for meals, which seemed to help them understand how much farther we had to go. The longest days we drove were about 600 miles. We had snacks in the car. Lunches were at fast food places with playgrounds. For the last 350 miles, we paid them 5 cents an hour not to fight :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks so much to all who responded. As promised, here is a summary of the suggestions I received for travel with my 2 year old daughter: 1) Most commonly mentioned was bringing music tapes along. We don't have a tape deck but we do have a portable tape player and will bring it along. Some suggested Walkman's with headphones which may work for some 2 year olds (and save parent's sanity as they don't have to listen to the tapes over and over). A good suggestion was to borrow the tapes from the library rather than buy one to save on expense. Possibly you could also trade tapes with a friend's family for the course of your trip. Tape recommendations were: Tom Chapin's Moonboat. Trout Fishing in America's Big Trouble. Sharon, Lois and Bram's Mainly Mother Goose. Raffi's Singable Songs. Marlo Thomas's Free to Be a Family. I'll add: Michael Martin Muphy's Cowboy Songs (Emma LOVES side one in particular) and any Ray Steven's tape (they never fail to crack us up :) Kids books that come with tapes were also suggested. 2) Advice on places to stop: Most commonly mentioned were fast food restaurants with play places that are OPEN. (never stop at one unless you can see ahead of time that it is indeed open!). Ball pits were said to be especially effective in wearing out toddlers. And added advantage of fast food places is that they usually have kid's meals that come with toys...any new toy is a good toy in a toddler's mind :) If you stop at a rest area here are some activities to be done in nice weather and/or parts of the country that don't have cold weather: Bubble fluid (make your own if you wish by adding one cup Dawn dishwashing liquid and one tsp. of glycerin to one gallon of water. Blow bubbles and have toddlers chase and stomp on them. Take a plastic berry basket to make tons of tiny bubbles. Soccer ball for kicking around. Frisbees to chase. 3) Toys for the car: Nominated the most times: Magna-Doodle, Travel Magna-Doodle (smaller size) and Etch-a-Sketch. I am planning to get Emma one. Other suggestions: Mr. Potato Head, toy train engine, matchbox cars, books that make noise or play songs (Emma has two that are _great_ for after dark because they light up when pressed), a roll of Scotch tape, child-safe scissors and paper, finger puppets (bought or made), paper bag puppets, a lightweight blanket to attach to the back of the front seat and over the car seat to make a "tent", a hard-backed pad of paper for easier drawing, washable crayons or markers or pens, a book of family photos, a book with toddler finger-plays/rhymes in it (Emma loves "itsy bitsy spider" right now) to perform on the road, a feather to tickle with :) Some make up word games, rhymes, etc. One person suggested 2 new small (under $3) toys per day of road travel to keep their attention. Someone said their friend told them you could draw with dry-erase markers on car windows and they'd erase right off. TEST this before you let the kids have at it :) With a two year old I wouldn't let her use dry-erase markers because they are toxic and probably hard to get out of clothing. Colorforms on the windows got mixed reviews. Some said they were great and some said the child couldn't reach them. If your child has an "open" car seat (one without a tray in front) try using one of those lap-top desks with the bean bag bottom for playing/ drawing activities. Make a "map" of the places you are going. Depending on the age of the child you could have them look for things as basic as road signs or cows in the field to land-marks you're going to pass. As kids my brother and I had a Bing-o game that used various common things found along the highways and the first one to spot it got to mark it on his/her card (things like railroad tracks, a barn, a sign with the letter Z in it, etc.) 4) Snacks: Generally the basic toddler variety of snacks such as raisins, cereals, crackers, cookies, fruit cut in small pieces, juices. We usually buy a small container of milk at convenience stores for road trips rather than trying to carry milk in a cooler. Someone suggested serving meals in the car as it takes up time but others said it was best to stop to eat so the kids could also run around. 5) About the best time to travel: Many suggested traveling after dark so the child would be asleep most or all of the time. In our case this is a little difficult as I'm night- blind and my husband would have to do all the driving but we may consider leaving in late afternoon and reduce the amount of daylight travel. Some also suggested having your child nap a shorter time the day you leave or not at all so s/he will sleep longer once in the car. Hope this is helpful to all of you who might be traveling with little ones! I have gotten lots of ideas from this and hope you do too! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: Re: ideas for long car trip w/kids? Date: 9 Nov 1995 22:58:45 -0500 One brand of crayons (Rose Art, I think.....not Crayola) come in a white plastic package with some type of character logo on it (they come in several different character logos.......our package is Beauty and the Beast) and the package splits in half and *holds* each individual crayon in the package. (So you don't hear, "MOM! Junior just dumped the crayons on the floor........make him pick them up....." as often. One other recommendation is to straighten up the backseat at each reststop. That way you will nip certain problems in the bud......you can pick up the lost crayons that would melt on the carpet/upholstry, pick up the slow spilling drinks and retrieve the lost items regularly. Teri ========================================================================= *** TRAIN TIPS *** The summary that follows is from a person who was soliciting advice on the topic, Andrew Lacher (m18709@mwvm.mitre.org). He then includes the responses he received after his posted summary. -------------------------------------------------------------- In general, most people seemed to feel that train travel and kids mix very well. Most indicate that paying the extra money for a sleeper car is worth it. For our purposes we have decided to fly. The cost for the train was close to the price of four plane tickets. I think that in most cases a sleeper car on the train would cost more then a plan ticket. A train ride could be a lot of fun however. The beds on the train (in the sleeper car) are not wide enough (2-3 feet) for an adult and one child. They are made for one adult. The private rooms are small (made for two adults) and there are no rails on the beds. We thought that a moving train was no place to sleep in a narrow bed with a small child. We will look into the train again when we can get by with going coach. We would have to be on the train for two nights, perhaps our decision would be different if it was just one night. P.S. Not all stations have checked baggage. The station closes to us (Mananas, VA) does not. This also influence our decision. Below are some of the response I have received. Unfortunately I have all ready erased a few but the were similar to the ones below. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tiffany Frazier (tiff@CS.UCLA.EDU) I've traveled from LA to Ann Arbor, MI 3 times. (48 hour, 2 nights trip) The third time was a couple weeks ago :-). The 2nd time we had 1 kid - 6 weeks old, the 3rd - 1 kid 2 years old. This last time was very nice - much better than previous trips. Coach will be hell with 2 kids and only 2 tickets. Coach wouldn't be much more pleasant with more tickets. We went 1-way with 1 6-wk old - with 2 coach seats. We bought an upgrade for the trip back. It is _very_ hard to sleep unless you are the sort of person who can sleep anywhere. I'm only really experienced with the SuperLiners (West Coast-Chicago trains) - which are two-story cars. We always road coach for the 6 hour trip from Chicago to Ann Arbor. All following info applies to those trains. I highly recommend a private room - with 2 kids I would almost "insist" that you need the "deluxe" room. The _economy_ sleeper room has two seats facing each other that fold down into a single bed. It also has an upper bunk with a "catch net". When the beds are down there is barely enough room for one person to sort-of stand (not really) in the rest of the room. You probably would not stay there during the day. My restless 2 year old would make sleep in such a room impossible - with two kids you'd have to sleep them both together on bottom bed (but it is possible to fall off onto the floor ~6-8 inches unless blocked somehow) with 1 adult or both adults up above. (There is a large window in both rooms, of course) The _deluxe_ room is as follows: It has a couch and a single foldable chair (plus fold down small table). The couch folds out to a double bed. There is a single bunk above. We folded out the couch for ourselves and took the mattress from the bunk and put it on the floor (and the foldable chair up onto the bunk) where our 2 year old slept. Worked like a charm. The room has a stall which is a toilet and a shower. There is also a sink/mirror/trash bin/towels area on own side (outside) of the stall. Kids 2 and under are free. They price rooms as ($for 2 coach tickets) + (extra particular room cost). For example - we just went and it cost us $1460 for the deluxe room round trip (incl. coach cost to get to Ann Arbor). This is _slightly_ more expensive than the three of us in three seats on an airplane. (I think American Express is offering some sort of deal right now - I'm not sure). Meals are included with sleepers (not coach). e.g. you'll get two meal tickets. We had no trouble feeding ourselves _and_ our 2 year old with the food that comes with the meal tickets. (We bought her a separate meal once and she didn't need it/eat it). So, food includes breakfast, lunch, and dinner which includes beverages. You buy your own soft drinks or alcohol. I think dinner costs like $7-11 (vegetarian - NY steak) for coach people. Meals have improved a lot recently! Whew - this is getting long. We checked a booster seat - no problem at all. Besides coach and sleeper cars there is one lounge car and one dining car. The function of the latter is obvious. The former has great viewing. Depending on the age of the car they have tables (older) or just swiveling seats (newer). There is room to walk around and there are _always_ young kids on the train for interaction. Movies are shown in the lounge car and the first floor is for smokers and for buying "nibbles" and alcohol. There is no smoking anywhere else (except private rooms). I really like train travel and our 2 year old really liked it too (though she was tired of vacation by the end). My husband thinks it's "ok" but he gets a little antsy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pking@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu I did this. Many years ago, with three kids, then 7, 5 and 8 months, going from Chicago to New York. It was an over nite trip. Then I did it again with the same three kids, 9, 7 and 1 1/2... It was pretty good. Meals in the dining car on a train can be pretty pricy. The regular cars on the train provide a lot of running up and down and climbing space, most people are fairly tolerant of the kids I've found. The trains have all sorts of storage areas for car seats, some even check your luggage all the way through. Trains usually have a 'club car' where you can get drinks and sandwichs but again this can be pricy. Alot of people bring there own food and as far as I know this is not a problem. Usually the sleeping cars are more expensive, but do give you some privacy. Bring books, games, puzzles, just about anything. There is little or no restriction of movement on a train. Enjoy. I did and it really was pretty easy, even doing it by myself! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nate McConnel (nate@grmail.Central.Sun.COM) If you really want to take the train, my suggestion would be to definitely get a private room. It is going to take forever to get to Colorado from Virginia and the seats in coach just aren't comfortable. There won't be a bit of space to stretch out once you get on the train in Chicago. You will be lucky if your family will all get to sit together. The conductor tries to get people to move around to accomodate the families, but some people are just creeps and just won't move once they plant their butts. Take lots of snacks. Maybe you could even try to take one of your meals along with you. The dining car is really expensive. The dinner was worth what we paid for it, but for breakfast and lunch, it was just a little more than I would have liked to have spent. Sodas were like 75c a can, but if you were driving on the turnpike or flying, you would run into that anyway. They have snack cars too, and they had danish (Dolly Madison I think) and snack cakes and then just chips and junk like that. Those are all things that you can get before hand and you will save money that way. You should probably plan to take stuff in case of an emergency too. One of our engines conked out along the way and there wasn't enough energy or whatever for them to make lunch. We were stuck on the track for 2 1/2 hours right during lunch time and they ended up going out and getting everyone stuff from KFC. My trip wasn't a good one. I didn't enjoy it like I thought I was going to, so I won't get into my ordeal. You could try posting to rec.railroad (it might be railroads). There are lots of people who travel by train who read that group and they could probably tell you more about it than I can. Maybe someone could even tell about the scenery and what to look out for on the way. If you go beyond Denver, I hear that it is beautiful. I guess you go into the mountains. That would be something to see. Sorry I couldn't give more information about what there is for the kids to do. Since Syd was so little, all he did was drink bottles and sleep. He was really a good boy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevran Day (day_kevran@tandem.com) We did this a few months ago when my son was 14 MO (and walking since 10MO). It was GREAT! There was room for him to sleep on the floor in front of our seats. The seats are much roomier than plane and recline better for mom and dad. He was able to get up and walk around (with me running after him). And the dining car worked out just fine, there are only booths. I heartily recommend it. We dreaded having him in a car seat for 5 hours so we decided the train was better even though it made a longer trip. They did check the car seat and the stroller went aboard and stored in the hand luggage area. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sequent!techbook.com!carolp@uunet.UU.NET (Carol Peterson) We looked into taking a train from Oregon to visit relatives in Colorado this year and decided to wait until they're older. We have a 2 year old and a 4 year old. From what we heard, entertaining the 4 year old for a couple of days wouldn't be too bad, but the 2 year old would probably be quite difficult. The clincher came when we checked into the cost of getting a sleeping compartment on the train. For the route we would be on, the sleeping compartment added several hundred dollars to each direction of the trip and moved the train cost for a family of 4 pretty close to the cost of plane tickets for all of us. If you fly you might try to find out how often the flight you will be on is booked. The flights we take to Denver are usually full and the odds of getting a "free" seat are quite slim. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cptasnik@u.washington.edu (Cindy Ptasnik) Subject: Re: Amtrak With a Toddler -- Suggestions? Date: 1 Feb 1994 19:10:21 GMT >I'd like to hear from anyone who's taken a longish (including one overnight) >train trip with a toddler, two yrs or under. Any experiences or suggestions >will be appreciated. In November of this year, my husband and daughter (16 mos. old at the time) and I travelled by Amtrak from Seattle to Central Illinois. This trip took 2 days. We spent two nights and two full days on the train. We had a "family cabin" for pretty much the entire trip--just had coach for a short leg from Chicago into downstate IL. The family cabin suited our needs fairly well. It had two adult bunks (a lower andan upper) which ran the width of the sleeper care--about 8 to 10 feet, I guess). There were two bunks for kids which formed an "L" with the adult bunks--they were about 4 to 5 feet long. Since there were just the three of us. we stored our luggage in the top bunks and used the bottom bunks for sleeping, I ended up jack knifed on the bend of the "L" as our daughter felt more secure sleeping with me in a strange place. There was also no real way of keeping her from rolling out of the bunk and under the bunk. By the way, the bunks convert to "chairs" for use during non-sleeping hours. We joked about our cabin being a closet with a bed. But it's probably more accurate to say that it is EITHER a closet OR a bed, because once the bunks are set up there's not much room for anything else. But it was room enough for Kate to play. There was no bathroom in our cabin (have to get a deluxe cabin for those facilities :)) But there were toilets in our car. Depending on which train you're on, there may or may not be a fold down changing table/platform in the toilet (very much like those on airlines). On one train that we were on, there was even a shower! We weren't brave enough to try a shower with all the rockin' and bumpin' going on. The dining car was an interesting experience with a baby. Kate objected to the use of tablecloths, which were there to keep cups and plates from sliding everywhere, but she preferred to watch her meal in motion! They have kids meals called "choo choo chewies" some were OK, some were vile, and they were usually served too hot to eat for about 5-10 minutes, which made for a cranky and hungry kid who couldn't understand the wait. We found the lounge car very pleasant. Kate could "roam" a little bit between our seats and look out the panoramic windows at the scenery going by. All in all we had a good trip, but I wouldn't take such a long trip the next time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: robert@weitek.COM (Robert Plamondon) Subject: Re: Amtrak With a Toddler -- Suggestions? I really like Amtrak. I like the trains, and I like the staff. I like the idea of going on long trips without strapping down an active kid for unnaturally long periods. One of the best things about the train is that kids can move around. But they WILL move around, so don't expect to be able to sit and read the whole time. The Western long-haul trains are all double-deckers, will spiffy observation cars and everything. Coach seating is almost all on the second level, while compartments are all on the bottom level. Only "deluxe bedrooms" and "special bedrooms" have toilets. Eastern trains are single-level, with a very different set of sleeping compartments to choose from. Compartments are expensive. In the one trip where I compared prices, a family bedroom would have doubled the ticket price. We traveled coach. (I didn't sleep well on the trip up, did much better on the trip back, and would probably sleep soundly if I did it again.) Coach has incredible amounts of legroom (at least on Superliner coaches). Even if the train is "full," there are lots of seats in the observation car and the snack bar, allowing you to move around freely on a full train. There are lots of kids on the long-haul trains, and they are tolerated very well by the other travelers. Make full use of the dining car, even though the prices are unappealing, because the snack bar fare is questionable. (Microwave pizza is the best kid food in the snack bar. The snack bar pastries are terrible.) Call Amtrak at 1-800-USA-RAIL. I've found the people at the other end to be very helpful. Ask them to send you a copy of AMTRAK'S AMERICA, which describes all their routes and services. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Diane C. Lin "For these are all our children... dlin@weber.ucsd.edu We will all profit by, or pay for (Dylan's mom, 6 years) whatever they become." James Baldwin User Contributions:
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